Fork In Politics

2017: Episode 11:

Anne Marie Waters & For Britain

In July I was going to do a video on Anne Marie Waters ("AMW").  I ended up not doing so because I thought it more important that she be viewed in terms of her accomplishments and not so much what I expected to be her accomplishments.  The script for that video is below the resources for this article and has not been amended since I wrote it on 15 July 2017.


I would not vote for AMW to be the leader of UKIP, but I am now (more so than when I wrote the article below) confident that AMW can lead a political group and do a damn sight better job of it than others.


The leadership election was not a great hit.  Less than 50% of the membership voted.  AME did an amazing job and came second with 21% of the vote.  I voted for Peter Whittle and was devastated that he came fifth.  AMW did a great job.  I am pleased that she did not win, as that would have destroyed the party, and I am pleased that despite the awful things said by Henry Bolton and Nigel Farage, she has elected not to make a great big song & dance about it and remained dignified in her response.  She has, thankfully, acted with great decorum in reprimanding them and setting up her own political party.  I know that a large number of kippers will go with her.  That saddens me, but we are the party of the ungovernable and AMW supporters wanted a party that is more focused on the single issue of Islam, and UKIP is not the party to do this.


One of the things that really annoyed me at the start of the leadership was the abuse being heaped on kippers that did not support AMW by her supporters.  Some of her supporters would literally heap abuse on anyone who dared not to support her.  It made her campaign look thin-skinned and weak and it reflected on to AMW herself.  I had a view of this narcissist who cannot cope with criticism, when in fact AMW is far from that.  But the almost non-stop abuse some of her supporters were putting out really did reflect badly.  I have now seen AMW interviewed a few times and she most certainly is not like that.  And, thankfully, her supporters did eventually stop with the abuse, which then allowed a breathing space where people could see AMW for what she actually was.  She is very thoughtful and very well versed.  She is not spewing poison.  She does what she does for the right reasons.


The only thing has remained that I do not like is the oft heard statement from AMW supporters that AMW is the only person with the guts/balls to stand up and say what needs to be said about Islam.  With the greatest of respect to AMW, she is not.  I have said, many times, that the party she should have gone to was Britain First.  They are a party that was set up for the principal reason of opposing Islam.  The leader and deputy leader of Britain First could hardly be said to be quiet when it comes to having the guts/balls of standing up and saying what they think needs to be said about Islam.  The same can be said of many people from the BNP.  So no, she is not the only person with the guts/balls to stand up and challenge Islam, and I think her supporters need to remember that.


So, as everyone now knows, AMW left UKIP to set up her own party.  There was an article in a UKIP magazine that suggested she did this before the election.  She did not, she did it on 17 October 2017[1].


I actually think she did the right thing.  The Party is to be called For Britain, and already has a councillor who will sit as a For Britain Councillor when the party is set up.  It will have one name and uses a very elegant emblem (the tri-fork of Britannia).


The launch of the party was not as powerful as I would have hoped.  I am also saddened that the only journalist that turned up was Tommy Robinson, though of course had any main-stream media turned up they would have just lied, so it was probably for the best[2].


The one thing that did shock me was a tweet from For Britain's tweet about where it sees itself on the political map.  It considers itself a Centrist Party[3].  It's tweet said as follows:


"For Britain stands strictly against the far right & race hatred. We are a centre-ground party, supporting individual rights for Brits."



Why did I find that shocking? Because For Britain supporters spent the whole of the UKIP leadership election calling people centrists as a pejorative.  They really thought that was a nasty thing to call people.  Many said they welcome For Britain because the UK needs a party on the right of politics.  That was all ruined when For Britain announced it is a centrist party.  I have to say - it made me laugh, a lot.  I imagine it ruined quite a few people's days when they read that.



As noted above, the little press that AMW got was very negative and all of it massively unfair.  She did a big interview with the Times and the Times simply wrote it up as if AMW is an ogre.  It really was unfair.  The Guardian ran an article about why people should avoid AMW and again it was astonishing what was written.  AMW went so far as to raise money to see if she could sue because some articles were just so unfair.  They almost always say the same things: AMW is a lesbian, AMW is a feminist, AMW was in the Labour Party and, the catch all AMW epithet - AMW is on the far right.


The latest lie from the Times and elsewhere is the lie that it is a far right party and that AMW has said she wants to move into the space vacated by the BNP.  This is what the Times has said:


"A woman from Dublin who lost the Ukip leadership battle is to set up her own far-right party.

Anne Marie Waters, who is originally from Stoneybatter, is planning to establish For Britain to capitalise on the electoral demise of the British National Party (BNP)." [4]


"Ukip has suffered a split after the runner-up in its leadership contest announced she has quit to start For Britain, a far-right party.

Anne Marie Waters, who won 21.3 per cent of the vote in the Ukip leadership election, said she left after she and her supporters were branded “Nazis and racists” by Nigel Farage and Henry Bolton, the party’s new leader."[5]


The Times ran a nasty article on 29 September 2017[6] saying that she was too extreme for UKIP, which was a re-hash of their nasty hit piece on 26 August 2017[7], which was intended to simply rubbish her and call her uncalled for names.  That disgusting article in August together with the equally disgusting article in the Guardian[8] prompted her to seek legal advice (the article has the title  "Bigot who would lead Ukip is a product of our times").  I could have told her for free the press can get away with it, having been read by their media lawyers (ho likely amended it quite a lot).  I would like to see her sue for such comments, but she would not win, so it would be a wasted opportunity, sadly.


I am not going to be a hypocrite and say that I love everything about her.  I was one of the very many chairmen who confirmed we would resign if she won the UKIP leadership.  Why?  I did not join Britain First, I joined UKIP.  AMW wants a party whose first priority is Islam.  She wants a party that goes after very little else but Islam.  Up until the submission of the application to the electoral commission[1] for For Britain, the party that meets those specific criteria needs is Britain First.  BF's website now requires people to sign in, so I cannot get their self definition from it and I am not going to use Wikipedia, as I imagine the BF entry has been massively written by the fascists in Hate Not Hope.  Its "Statement of Principles" in September 2015 (ie just after the election)[9] only mentions Islam once.  But if you go on their youtube account[10] and see their last ten videos (as at writing this on 22 October 2017] they have seven videos about Islam and Mosques and three about the continued harassment of BF's leader & deputy leader by the police.


That kind of obsession on the issue of Islam is pretty much how AMW comes across.  She said many times during the UKIP leadership contest that she is not a one trick pony, she in fact had a very good and very detailed manifesto, which is the skeleton for the manifesto of For Britain and will be updated and amended as they go on.  It necessarily covers many issues, and AMW cites this as proof that she is not just about Islam.  But that is not what we see.  We see AMW and her supporters literally obsess on the issue of Islam.  Very little else gets talked about, just Islam.  And I did not join a Britain First type movement that has at its core principal the issue of Islam.  Had I wanted to join a party that has as its core principals the issue of Islam I would have joined Britain First.  Consequently, when faced with the prospect of a leader that will have as her core guiding principal the issue of Islam, then I am afraid I would walk away.


As at the date of writing this (2pm Sunday 22 October 2017) I went onto AMW's Twitter account[11] and looked at tweets from her (ie not re-tweets and not responses to other tweets) of the first ten tweets I can across[12] five are about Islam and five not.  I could go on, but you get the message.  I looked at the For Britain website on the "about" page, but that is simply about why she was standing in the UKIP leadership debate. It does not actually say what For Britain is about, only what AMW's thoughts on policy are[13].


So that is why I would have walked.  Islam and Islamic terrorism are important issues to talk about and tackle, and certainly needs to be talked about openly.  Labour, Conservatives and LibDem simply will not talk about it.  Every terrorism event we hear them tell us that the Islamic terrorists are not Islamic and their first concern after a terrorism event is usually the Islamic community and not the non-Islamic community that worry daily about being blown up or having their throats slit by some nasty vermin doing it for his 72 virgins.  But they are muslims and they carry out their atrocities for Islam, they even quote their favourite saying before murdering people, as did the 9/11 terrorists and every other terror attack around the world.  Simply telling us that they are not real muslims makes you sound very stupid.  So I agree with some of what AMW says.  I agree and support her supporters who view this as the number one issue that must be dealt with.  I personally do not think it is the number one priority and I would be uncomfortable in a party that talks of little else, but I do appreciate why some people do have it as their main concern.


And that is where I am on the issue.  I support AMW setting up her party and I really hope it is a success.  But I also hope that it does not turn into what the BNP turned in to - a cult in which people see actual racism as necessary and needed.  I cannot see that For Britain will be successful for the simple fact that both Britain First and BNP were not successful.  Britain First's results have been dismal, to say the least.  We hear AMW supporters saying there are millions out there crying out for a party like For Britain.  But the fact is, there aren't.  Britain First has been disastrous in every election it has stood in and BNP only had a very brief period where it got councillors and two MEPs elected.  AMW's entire Leadership contest was designed by a former BNP and presently Liberty GB chap, Jack Buckby[14].  I suspect he will not leave Liberty GB and join For Britain.


In the 2015 General Election BNP stood 8 candidates and got 1,667 votes. Liberty GB put up 3 candidates and got a total of 418 votes. In 2017 BNP put up 10 candidates and got 4,642 votes and Liberty GB did not put up any candidates.  In the Batey & Spen by-election on 20 October 2016 Jack Buckby managed a dismal 220 votes.  In the 2016 London Assembly elections Britain First put up 10 candidates and one Mayoral candidate.  The 10 received a total of 39,071 votes and the mayoral candidate got 31,372 votes.  BNP put up 11 candidates and got a total of 15,833 votes. Its mayoral candidate got 13,325 votes. In the Rochester and Strood by-election, 2014, Britain First got a total of 56 votes.    Anti-Islam parties simply do not do well because the "millions of votes" For Britain followers think are out there are simply the Twitter Bubble effect.  A look at well similar parties have done shows that the "millions" of votes is in fact a relatively small handful of "thousands" of votes.


I do genuinely wish her success and I do genuinely look forward to seeing what she does.  I hope she can fight against the MSM, but more importantly I hope she is able to keep the party from descending into outright racism or collapse in on itself as every starts fighting.  I see what some of her supporters say on-line, and some of it is unpleasant.  Many of the people I know who have joined or I expect will join For Britain are far from racist, so I do have hope that she and some of her more capable associates will be able to keep the party going.  There are some very, very capable people that are involved in the party and I really hope that the venture becomes everything she wants it to be.  Funding will be almost impossible and press will be mercilessly negative, so I do know AMW has an uphill battle - but I suspect she will overcome obstacles and has the support of some very talented people to help her get there.




[1] Electoral Commission - applications for registration


[2] Tommy Robinson, Rebel media, Youtube 18 October 2017


[3] @ForBritain Twitter 15 October 2017


[4] The Times 10 October 2017 "Ukip reject Anne Marie Waters founds own far-right party"


[5] The Times 12 October 2017 Ukip loser Anne Marie Waters will start far-right party


[6] The Times 29 September 2017 "Is Anne Marie Waters too extreme even for Ukip?"


[7] The Times 26 August 2017 "Irish lesbian hides her roots in bid to be Ukip leader"


[8] The Guardian 29 July 2017 "Bigot who would lead Ukip is a product of our times"


[9] Way Back When Machine 15 September 2015 "STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES"


[10] Youtube Britain First


[11] Twitter Anne Marie Water @AMDWaters


[12] Tweet URLs as follows

(1) Tweet about a racist black man

(2) Tweet on cultural differences Indonesia/Australia

(3) Tweet on terror Watch & ISIS

(4) Tweet on Muslim found not guilty of rape

(5)Tweet on pro Islam video by police

(6) Tweet on giving a speech about UK Liberty

(7) Tweet about a podcast in which she talks about Party & Islam

(8) Tweet about setting up the party

(9) Tweet about setting up the party

(10) Tweet about Islam and sexual buse & rape


[13] For Britain 22/10/2017

Uses the phrase "I believe" seven times.  This is not "About" For Britain it is "About" AMW.  Hopefully she will update the site to reflect what the party is about.  I imagine they are all flat out trying to get things sorted.  The page still contains the statement "For Britain is the Anne Marie Waters UKIP leadership campaign."


"These are the fundamental beliefs that underline my For Britain campaign. This is why I joined the UK Independence Party, the only party that is truly loyal to Britain, and why I intend to pursue pro-Britain policies within the party."


[14] Jack Bucky is former BNP and stood in elections for Liberty GB.


July 2017 Version:

The AMW Enigma


Paul Nuttall resigned as leader of UKIP following a disastrous few months[1].  He ruined the UKIP name with his atrocious Stoke Central by election, as a consequence of his campaign manager (Lisa Duffy) doing odd things.  He then over-saw a General Election in which UKIP lost most of its deposits.


During the General Election the question arose regarding a candidate called Anne Marie Waters.  She was the Parliamentary candidate for Lewisham.  She had been cleared and selected.  But the Independent and Guardian threw a tantrum and said she did not meet their PC requirements, demanding that UKIP de-select her.  They did[2].


Tommy Robinson slagged off Paul Nuttall for de-selecting AMW[3].  He also called him a coward[4] for giving in to the Independent and the PWC brigade.  The election came and Paul Nuttall resigned and has not been heard from since.


On 22 May 2017 a young muslim with a small penis blew himself up in the Manchester Arena at a concert and murdered 23[5].  Quite rightly, a march was set up to demonstrate about the dangers posed by muslims who like to blow themselves up because they think that is the only way they will  get laid.  The march was set up by Gays Against Sharia[6].  The march then got a fantastic group of speakers including Tommy Robinson and Anne Marie Waters.


Tommy Robinson introduced Anne Marie Waters as the next leader of UKIP[7].  He and Anne Marie told people to join UKIP and vote for Anne Marie to be the next leader of UKIP.  Her campaign was away.


I do not support Anne Marie Waters.  I have seen lots of tweets and Facebook status' that basically call anyone who does not support her to be traitors or PC bitches etc.  It has been awful.  The abuse has been astonishing.


Why do I not support AMW?


She is a single issue person.  Yes, she has issues in her manifesto, but look at what she talks about, look at her Twitter[8].  Do you see a single issue mentioned besides Islam?  She has mentioned economics twice on her Facebook, but she does not seem to talk about much on the Facebook page, though I did like this:


"Anne Marie Waters

30 June at 20:10 •

I am busy with talks at UKIP branches, but would welcome even more. Given the unfounded slurs, a right of reply is the British thing to do."


But a look through Twitter just outlines why I do not think she would be suitable as the leader of UKIP.


Her Twitter feed makes clear that her principal issue is Islam.  I once went back an entire month (she tweets a lot - took ages).  There was only leadership and islam on her tweets, nothing else.  Today she had one on the NHS, one on law & order and one on economics, the rest were leadership & Islam.


I have posed this question a few times, but only received abuse back and no response.  She is committed to Islam.  She is the chair of Pegida and Sharia Watch.  She pretty much only talks about Islam.  Why not join Britain First?  They are as concerned with Islam as she is.  Why not join them?  UKIP, for most people I talk to, is a party that has Radical Islam as an issue, but is also concerned with the other 95% of society as well.  Britain First concentrates on just that 5% of the population.  So why not go and join Britain First?


The abuse I get back is usually of the variety that I am not concerned with Radical Islam and I will be sorry etc.  I think the vast majority of people in UKIP support what she says (despite that certain leadership candidates think otherwise) and they also support Tommy Robinson.  But Islam is not the be-all-and-end-all of life.  People are not objecting to the majority of what she says, they are objecting to the possessiveness of it.  If you want to be leader of UKIP then you need to be able to deal with a full society worth of issues.  Islam accounts for less than 5% of the population, so if Islam accounts for 98% of what you are talking about then you are not the right fit for leader.


I am talking out of place when I say this, but if she were elected then every single UKIP branch committee in Greater Manchester would resign immediately upon being told the news. I know that because I am the secretary of UKIP Greater Manchester.  Again, they are not objecting to the content of what she says, they are objecting to the singularity of it.  If they had wanted to join a party that is 98% about Islam they would have gone and joined Britain First or the BNP.  They did not join Britain First or the BNP because they do not share those values.  But every single one of them shares the concern of radical islam and how dangerous it is.  But they also are concerned about getting people off benefits and into jobs, stopping the tories taking benefits of the disabled or stopping Corbyn getting rid of our defence systems.  That is why they would all resign en-mass.  Because they joined a party that was about more than just one issue.


I am also concerned by the fact that she has Jack Buckby as her campaign manager.  Buckby is a BNP person[9].  He is currently sitting as a Liberty GB candidate.  When Jo Cox was murdered he had the gall to stand against the Labour candidate.  It was so disgusting even the Daily Express called him vile for doing it[9].  He cannot join UKIP because we do not allow BNP people, unlike the Labour Party[10].  Try to speak to AMW on Twitter and you are likely to get a response from him.


Anne Marie Waters is represented on-line a lot by Anish Patel, who was until recently an NEC member.  Anish resigned from the NEC when he started calling people on Twitter cunts[11] because they did not support AMW, he then deleted his facebook.  He said he reisgned because of health, but states regularly that he resigned because UKIP is full spineless cowards.  I have asked him what he wants from UKIP that is stronger than the Integration Agenda, but he did not respond.  I suspect he also has the Britain First view-point, and would probably be much happier in Britain First than UKIP.  I asked him why he stays in UKIP, but again no response[12].


As I say above, I am not against what Anne Marie Waters is saying necessarily.  We live in a society where we have dickless wonders murdering innocent people because they think their god is demanding they go round murdering people.  This year alone the UK has had numerous actual terror attacks and five that almost happened[13].  Muslims only represent less than 5% of the UK population, yet the numbers dead and injured are just astonishing.  So yes, I agree there is an issue.  That is why I support Tommy Robinson.  But I do not want to be a part of a party that is only concerned with Islam.


Indeed, I do not want to be a part of a party that is concerned about Islam.  I want to be a part of a party that is concerned about Radical Islam and Islamism.  My only criticism of Tommy Robinson (and i mean ONLY criticism) is that he nowadays just says "Islam" and no longer differentiates between ordinary muslims and radical muslims.  I think that is a very important thing to be very clear on.  There are people in the BNP, EDL and Britain First that believe all muslims should be removed from the UK, or all Mosques should be closed.  I do not agree with that view-point.  Anne Marie Waters appears as if she does, and that is why she is dangerous to UKIP.  If elected she would turn UKIP into Britain First.  And that is why every chair I know has said they would resign at the September UKIP conference, at which the leadership results are being announced.  I am told almost all MEPs would likewise resign.  She might become leader, but she would not have a party to lead that is anything other than the remnants of a once great party.


Anne Marie has said she is not a single policy person, but the fact is over the last year (and being honest I had never heard of her before the debacle when she was de-selected) she has not discussed anything other than Islam.  She may knock out the odd tweet now and again, but the vast, vast majority of her tweets are about Islam.


And, as noted already, most people in UKIP want a party that will stand up to Radical Islam, but they also want a political party that represents the people of Britain and can win at elections.  There is a reason why BNP and Britain First never do well in elections.  Their brand of politics is not welcome in the UK.  UKIP under Anne Marie Waters, based upon what she has been saying, would be no different.  I for one would not be staying around to find out.


Finally, a comment on the election.  She and Tommy told people to join UKIP to vote for her.  The press say about 2,000 people joined.  The rules that Govern a leadership election are quite straight forward.  You are only eligible to vote in a leadership election if you are in good standing and have been a member for 28 days as at the date the leadership contest is called.  Ours was called on 23 June 2017.  If you were a  member from or before 26 May 2017 you can vote.  If not, you cannot.  Filling the party with entryists in the hopes of a far right take over is not possible.  Labour let it happen.  We will not.  The rules are very clear and are not capable of being changed by an alleged NEC vote.  The constitution may only be changed by way of a vote of the whole membership.  The end.  No further discussion.


Of the people who have put their names forward I am backing Peter Whittle.  I was backing him last time he stood.  I like many that have put their names forward, but Peter seems, to me, to be the best. I will put out a video when the final list is known.





[1] The Telegraph 9 June 2017 "Paul Nuttall Resigns UKIP Leadership After Disastrous General Election"


[2] For Britain 3 May 2017 "Paul Nuttall Deselects Anne Marie Waters as Lewisham Candidate"


[3] Twitter @ TRobinsonNewEra " EXCLUSIVE: UKIP's Deselected Islam Critic says Nuttall 'Not Prepared to Answer Difficult Questions on Islam'"


[4] Twitter @ TRobinsonNewEra " Paul Nuttall confronted over Ukipper who branded Islam a 'death cult' - Mirror Onlin nuttal is a coward"


[5] Wikipedia "2017 Manchester Arena Bombing"


[6] Facebook "Gays Against Sharia"


[7] Youtube @Tommy Robinson " Anne Marie Waters 'The Next UKIP Leader' Speech At UK Against Hate | Manchester | 11/06/17"


[8] Twitter @ @AMDWaters


[9] Daily Express 4 July 2016 "Who is 'vile' Jack Buckby - the former BNP supporter contesting Jo Cox’s seat?"


[10] Youtube Fork In Politics 18 October 2015 "Episode 4 (Part 1 of 2) Labour Party & Its BNP Candidates"


[11] Twitter @Anish_Patel3107 " Yes Jihad means struggle, & your a 2 faced arsehole who added me on Facebook again. Fuck off I haven't got time for cunts like you anymore"


[12] Twitter @KalvinChapman and @Anish_Patel3107


[13] Mirror 14 July 2017 "Five terror attacks just minutes away from being carried out in London stopped by police"





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